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Hello and welcome to Noon Conference hosted by MRI Online

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Noon Conference connects the global radiology community

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through free live educational webinars that are accessible

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for all and is an opportunity

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to learn alongside top radiologists from around the world.

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You can access a recording of today's conference

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and previous noon conferences

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by creating a free MRI online account.

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Today we are so honored to welcome the RAD Room.

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Back to the noon conference stage.

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The Rad Room's mission is to support students exploring

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or preparing for a career in radiology

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through intentional inclusion and collaboration.

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They aim to uplift students from all backgrounds,

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especially those without radiology departments and mentors.

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Through these efforts, the RAD Room hopes not to,

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to not only improve the recruitment of diverse, caring

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and enthusiastic physicians into radiology,

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but to also provide a community of support.

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Today they're here to lead a panel discussion about getting

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ready for the 20 24 20 25 radiology match.

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You've got questions throughout the panel.

1:00

We encourage you to use that FU q

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and a feature to submit them so we can get to as many

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as we can before time is up.

1:07

With that, we are ready to begin today's Panel Rad room.

1:10

Take it from here.

1:12

So, as the, um,

1:14

the Rad Room is an organization which primarily supports

1:17

students matching into radiology.

1:19

Of course, one of our most, um, requested topics

1:22

of all time is matching into radiology.

1:24

And every year there's changes.

1:26

So we're excited to cover the changes

1:28

that happened this year.

1:29

I first wanna, um, welcome our other panelists

1:33

who have taken time out of their day to join us, um,

1:35

and support those heading into radiology.

1:38

So first I would like to introduce Dr.

1:40

Cha from Penn Hershey, who's a pd

1:43

and she's a leader in radiology education.

1:45

So we're so happy to have her expertise here today. Dr.

1:48

Ji, who's been a supporter of the Rad Room since

1:51

before the Rad Room was a thing, um, who's an A PD at, uh,

1:55

um, so we're so glad to have him back.

1:57

And then we'd like to congratulate

1:58

and also welcome the new doctor, Ray Prasad, um,

2:02

who just be Ed the radiology and Dr.

2:04

Bur. So thank you all for joining us this morning.

2:08

Um, really quickly, this is, um, heavily covered

2:10

so it won't be focused on today.

2:12

We always wanna cover general stats

2:13

for matching into radiology.

2:15

There's so many resources, including our own, um,

2:17

which you can find on the radiology room.com about matching

2:21

into radiology and general advice.

2:22

But since there's so much of it,

2:24

we wanna focus on other things today.

2:25

But just really quickly, what does it look

2:27

like to apply to radiology?

2:29

So this is a really great graphic.

2:30

It's super busy, but it's from Dr. Um, Francis Dang.

2:33

Um, and basically what I wanted to point out is how, um,

2:37

it became radiology is they say it's like super, super hot

2:40

and it's gone from burning white hot to red hot again.

2:43

So although, um,

2:45

it remained highly competitive in this most recent year, um,

2:49

we did see a slight improvement of the match rate from if

2:53

for this is for MDs at the bottom, but from 81% to 87%

2:57

and for everybody, um, overall from 67% to six 73%.

3:02

So still a very, very competitive field to match into,

3:05

but it's cooling down just the tiniest bit.

3:08

Um, of course, as we mentioned,

3:10

it's a competitive field and what does that look like?

3:12

So it looks like very high step two scores, plenty

3:15

of research, um, and then many interviews

3:19

and ranks to, um, ensure a successful match.

3:23

Other factors that generally play into applying

3:25

to radiology include radiology involvement

3:28

with organizations, um,

3:30

or at your own institution, community service

3:32

because, um, radiology is definitely a service driven, um,

3:36

organization and leadership, whether

3:38

that's in radiology specifically

3:40

or other, um, types of leadership.

3:43

Last year we saw some changes in the application.

3:45

So they reduced and um,

3:47

implemented a maximum experience limit of 10.

3:50

Um, they had people highlight, uh,

3:52

their most meaningful experiences

3:54

and they expand the signaling, um, the signaling program,

3:57

which is introduced a year prior

3:59

and most of the applicants had to pass fail step one,

4:02

which was a huge change.

4:05

Um, so as mentioned,

4:06

the biggest change this year was like the

4:08

expansion of the signaling.

4:10

Um, and so Hill

4:11

and I year when we applied, this was like a brand new thing.

4:15

We didn't really know what to do.

4:16

Um, I thought it was really successful.

4:18

So I'm super excited to hear from our panelists

4:20

what they thought this year, but

4:21

last year they had some more.

4:22

And this upcoming application cycle,

4:25

there'll be six gold and six silvers.

4:27

So we'll kind of dive into like what does that look like

4:29

and what does that mean for us?

4:32

And so this is kind

4:33

of just comparing the signals by specialty.

4:35

So radiology kind of fall somewhere in the middle.

4:38

You can see orthopedics

4:39

and neurology have, uh, moved basically to all signal, um,

4:43

system and others have not adopted the the program as much.

4:47

And so with that, I would like

4:48

to dive into our q and A panel.

4:51

And so for our first topic, as mentioned,

4:54

we're gonna talk about signaling.

4:55

And so I'll start with um, aria and Michael.

4:57

We'll actually start with Aria.

5:00

What was your approach to signaling in geographic

5:02

preferences and how effective did you feel

5:04

that those were for you?

5:07

Yeah, hi guys. Thank you guys so much for having me here.

5:10

Very excited to be here.

5:12

Um, as we're signaling, I really was nervous.

5:15

I remember when sort of deciding on what to signal.

5:18

Um, like you said, it was super brand new.

5:20

Like no one really had uh, I guess a format to follow on who

5:24

to signal for me.

5:26

Uh, I really knew I wanted to be sort of like maybe closer

5:29

to homes, so like east coast, southeast and then the south.

5:33

So that was kind of my first priority in terms

5:35

of like my big geographic signals, you know,

5:38

where did I want to go 'cause I wanted

5:40

to be closer to family.

5:41

And then after that I sort of started looking up programs

5:44

that kind of matched things that I wanted in a program.

5:48

For example, lots of leadership opportunities

5:51

or academic opportunities, things like that.

5:53

Um, and it can be hard to find that stuff online,

5:56

but I think think that speaking with other people, um,

5:59

looking up sort of just on their website, things like

6:01

that sort of kind of drove me to chose my signals.

6:04

Um, but I still think that there's no really perfect way.

6:07

I think I sort of based it on geo preference

6:09

and sort of what the programs had to offer,

6:11

but it was still hard to sort

6:12

of decide on which ones to make.

6:19

And what about you Michael?

6:21

Yeah, so my approach was similar to Aria.

6:24

I had a strong geo preference that I knew from the start.

6:27

So I signaled all East Coast and then the Midwest.

6:31

Uh, and I think that the geo signals had a strong role

6:36

in where I got interviews

6:37

and where I didn't, for example, I didn't signal,

6:40

I don't remember the, the name of the region,

6:42

but the New York, Pennsylvania, uh, region

6:45

and I barely got any interviews there.

6:47

So I think using the geo signals,

6:51

if you have a strong preference for an area is helpful.

6:54

Or if you don't have a strong preference,

6:57

but you want to try to maximize yield of interviews,

7:00

you know that New York area is a good one.

7:01

You can calculate how many programs are in each uh, region

7:05

and maximize if that's your way to do it.

7:08

Uh, but I was like aria in

7:09

that I had a specific area I wanted to end up in.

7:12

And so I used my signals for that in terms of the gold

7:16

and silver, I read a lot about this, uh, and went back

7:20

and forth whether, how, whether I should game it, you know,

7:22

how I should, whether I should just send 'em all

7:26

to my targets, send some to reaches, send some to safeties.

7:29

There's lots online you can read about this.

7:31

Um, I ultimately, I thought that the gold look precious,

7:35

so I sent them to all targets in my geo region

7:38

that I wanted to go to.

7:40

Um, and then the silver I sent to

7:44

like the top few outside

7:46

of those top six that I was interested in.

7:48

And then some reaches

7:49

or some distant geo programs that I wanted to go to

7:54

or at least get an interview at.

7:56

Uh, and I got 11 out of 12 of my signals.

8:01

Um, but like I said, my geo signals, uh,

8:06

almost all, I think I might've gotten one interview outside

8:08

of my geo signals.

8:10

So, uh, I would pay attention to that.

8:14

I think this is it really very interesting.

8:16

And I know that the A PDR last year kind

8:18

of covered this when they invited A A MC on, um,

8:21

and there was some, like you're heading into,

8:24

there was some alignment with GEOS signaling

8:26

and regular signaling for most people.

8:28

So with that, I would like to get start with the program

8:32

director, um, perspective on signaling.

8:34

So we'll start with Dr. Shea.

8:35

What, um, how important was signaling at your program for,

8:38

um, consideration for an interview?

8:41

Uh, yes. So it was very important for us.

8:43

Um, I'm sure many

8:45

of the programs are getting hundreds and hundreds.

8:48

We received over a thousand applications.

8:51

So, um, to read through all of them, um,

8:55

we do have four in the education committee

8:57

that we divide the, um, application.

9:00

So each of us reviews like 250

9:02

or 300, which is enormous task.

9:06

Uh, so signaling was very important to us.

9:08

So, uh, it didn't really matter if you sent us a gold

9:11

one or a silver one.

9:12

Um, either way it was fine.

9:16

Um, so the A PDR survey that I just told you

9:21

that I was, uh, writing about, so

9:23

I had 84 program directors replied to this survey

9:26

and 95% of the responses were that the gold signal

9:31

was slightly to significantly increase in likelihood

9:34

that a program would offer an applicant an interview.

9:36

Okay. And about 90% of the respondents said

9:40

that if you get a silver signal si similarly you would,

9:43

it's slight to significantly increase in likelihood,

9:46

um, of getting an interview.

9:48

Now what's interesting is if you send a signaling

9:52

and a geographic preference, it more than half

9:55

of the respondents, um, said that they would give, uh,

9:58

greatly or significantly increased likelihood

10:01

that you're gonna get an interview.

10:03

So, um, if you send a gold or silver signal and your drag

10:07

after preference are in that area,

10:10

the likelihood it is very high

10:12

that you will get an interview.

10:14

So that was, um, pretty much how we did it as well.

10:19

Dr. Faraji, what about your program?

10:21

Yeah, very similar I would say.

10:24

I mean we're, Cleveland is a relatively niche area

10:28

and so historically we've had

10:30

to glean people's genuine interest in coming to our area

10:34

or program from, you know,

10:35

metrics like which med school

10:37

they went to and things like that.

10:38

And, and then geographic region came, which was, uh,

10:41

geographic preference was, was very useful.

10:44

And then signaling came along.

10:46

And the signaling I think, kind of has, um, been a,

10:49

a very important factor,

10:51

assuming a program has enough folks who've signaled them

10:54

that are, they consider to be competitive applicants.

10:57

It, you know, it's difficult to look through all

11:00

of the applications that Dr.

11:01

Cha alluded to. So, um, that being said, I did talk

11:04

to some program directors at the A A UR,

11:08

well now a a r formerly a UR conference.

11:11

And there are some programs out there that, um,

11:14

that review all of the applications

11:17

no matter whether they signaled or not

11:19

and whether, you know, how strongly they consider signal.

11:22

I think Dr. Cha's data

11:23

that she presented is probably the most significant,

11:26

but I don't, we did not interview anybody

11:29

that did not signal us, I would say

11:31

because, you know, it's a very strong indicator

11:34

that a applicant is genuinely interested in your program.

11:37

And I'd like to see the signals increase, at least

11:40

to the number of contiguous, um, ranks,

11:44

uh, to, to match.

11:45

I think that would be a reasonable thing.

11:47

Um, 'cause I think some folks are maybe at a little bit

11:49

of a disadvantage based upon the limited,

11:52

relatively limited number of signals.

11:54

But yeah, so we consider it strongly in short TLDR.

12:01

I think that's a great point. Whether

12:02

or not it will increase or whether

12:04

or not that number to rank will be scaled back

12:07

to match the amount of signals.

12:08

Because I've heard a lot of feedback from both, um,

12:11

applicants and programs that it,

12:13

there is a heavy emphasis on the signaling now.

12:16

Um, so we talked about a lot about interviewing.

12:18

Do you either of you think

12:19

that it had any influence on ranking?

12:21

It sounds like most of your pool, what you're considering

12:23

for ranking then had signal.

12:25

So is it then become pretty even playing field from there?

12:29

I'll start, doctor.

12:32

Um, so once we interviewed everyone, um, we knew

12:36

what they signaled us, but it didn't have any account into

12:39

where they landed on the rank list.

12:41

Um, 'cause once everyone interviews, you're not supposed

12:46

to use the signaling

12:47

to figure out if you wanna rank somebody high or not.

12:49

You're supposed to go by the holistic approach.

12:51

So we, we knew what they signaled us,

12:54

but um, it didn't really figure into

12:58

where they were on the rank list.

13:03

Yeah, I agree. Um, no additional information to add.

13:07

We are, um, we weren't blinded,

13:09

but yeah, the general recommendation is to not consider

13:12

that in your rank process.

13:14

So the holistic review, um, that we utilize did not involve,

13:18

uh, the, the metal of the signal.

13:22

Perfect. And then you both,

13:24

maybe you mentioned this a little bit,

13:25

but did geographic signaling have any, did you pay,

13:28

have you, I know that Dr mentioned, especially in Cleveland,

13:31

that knowing that somebody really wants to go to Cleveland

13:33

or surrounding areas is important.

13:35

But did you weigh as heavily

13:36

or is it more of just a, an additional piece of information?

13:40

No, we have, we heavily weighed that just

13:43

because again, Hershey, Pennsylvania is a rural area

13:45

and a lot of young people wanna go into the

13:47

cities and whatnot.

13:48

So, um,

13:50

and the other thing is we really recruit our

13:53

residents into our faculty.

13:55

So a lot of them actually end up staying.

13:57

So, um, that was a big consideration for us whether

14:01

or not someone was actually interested in coming to,

14:04

you know, south central Pennsylvania

14:05

and perhaps staying in, you know, not just for four years,

14:10

but in the, um, in their careers.

14:13

Um, so yeah, I, I don't know if we're supposed to do that

14:17

or not, but it certainly, certainly did it.

14:21

Yeah, I think that's reasonable.

14:23

Uh, in my view, um,

14:26

I didn't pay much attention to geographic region

14:30

because I was operating under the assumption, um,

14:33

that if someone had signaled our program,

14:36

that is a stronger indicator of genuine interest rather than

14:41

a person who didn't signal and put a geographic preference.

14:45

That being said, if you signaled

14:46

and had the geographic preference, um,

14:48

then it's probably a stronger indicator.

14:51

But I guess that just depends

14:52

how many signals a program has, um, on

14:56

how strongly they weigh the additional information

14:58

of geographic preference.

14:59

But, uh, we waited a little bit less strongly

15:02

'cause we felt the signaling kind

15:03

of was a stronger indicator of interest in our program

15:07

and probably geographic region, as Michael kind of alluded

15:10

to earlier, that went into his decision making heavily

15:14

as far as which programs he signaled.

15:17

I think it's really interesting to see how well the, um,

15:20

mindsets of the applicants and programs really do align,

15:23

because I do think that a lot of us apply based on

15:25

where we wanna live and work,

15:27

or your family or support systems.

15:29

And that makes sense that you're not only recruiting

15:31

residents, but potential faculty.

15:33

And it's really cool to see how our careers unfold this way.

15:36

Um, I'm gonna welcome Dr.

15:37

Sahil Patel, um, who is the other co-founder

15:40

of the Round Room and he's gonna be taking away.

15:44

Yeah. Thank you Ashley. Uh, so, uh, the next few questions

15:47

that I have are gonna be for Aria and Michael.

15:50

So I think a lot of the people

15:51

who are tuning in today would really like

15:53

to know about your experiences on your interviews.

15:56

So were there any specific themes

15:59

that you thought were coming up

16:00

more frequently on your interviews?

16:02

Things like people asking about your research,

16:04

your leadership opportunities, uh,

16:07

if you guys could just weigh in on kind of

16:08

what the big highlights were from your interview days

16:10

that you felt was pretty common amongst different programs.

16:13

Uh, aria, we can start with you.

16:16

Yeah, so I will say I think radiology

16:18

interviews are really fun.

16:20

Like I genuinely enjoyed them.

16:22

I know like interviews can be exhausting, so it is fun.

16:25

I feel like most of the time to talk to a lot

16:26

of the faculty and the residents.

16:28

One thing that I, I always heard that people would sort

16:31

of wanna get to know you and, you know, just get

16:34

to know more about you outside of your application.

16:35

And so I really underestimated that people really do want

16:38

to know like what your hobbies are, what you like to do

16:41

for fun, if you have sort of any connection, you know,

16:44

to things that they like to do

16:45

because it makes for easier conversation.

16:47

And so I think that did come up a lot.

16:49

People really wanna know what kind of person you are.

16:52

Um, I do think that things on my application for

16:55

that section specifically,

16:57

people did ask a lot about like my note worthy

16:59

characteristics and then also the highlighted sections

17:02

where you sort of say your three most important experiences.

17:06

I feel like those were very commonly brought up probably

17:09

because they are highlighted

17:10

and, you know, since they're on a time crunch,

17:12

I'm sure they're trying to figure out, you know,

17:14

what's most important to you.

17:15

I would say those are the things that

17:16

we're asked about the most.

17:17

But, um, don't be afraid to like, talk about yourself

17:20

and what you like to do,

17:21

because I do think people like to know sort

17:23

of more about you and what kind of makes you tick.

17:28

Fantastic. Michael, anything to add?

17:31

Yeah, once again, echoing a lot of what Aria said, uh,

17:34

hobbies, interests, who you are as a person, they want

17:38

to get to know you have a good answer.

17:40

And an authentic, not not too calculated

17:42

or scripted answer for tell me about yourself.

17:45

Uh, because that can be an easy entrance into a conversation

17:50

and you also get the chance to sort

17:52

of set the tone of the conversation.

17:54

Um, if you're light and humorous and

17:57

or self-deprecating, you know, it, it sets a stage.

18:01

Um, but if you're very stiff and formal, then it's,

18:03

it's hard for them to carry the conversation from there.

18:07

Um, in terms of my experiences, I created a, I mean, it's

18:12

what I'm interested in, but I also created the narrative on

18:14

my application of medical education.

18:17

So a lot of experiences both in the local level

18:21

and the national level were related to that.

18:23

Um, so it was easy for me to talk about that.

18:26

I don't think it really matters what, um, you do,

18:30

what category of thing you're spending your time in as much

18:33

as the depth at which you're spending time in it

18:37

and your ability to talk about it and come across authentic

18:41

and passionate, um, and

18:43

and able to connect it to your future career in some way,

18:47

uh, and the program you're interviewing at.

18:50

But that's my take and that that was my bridge towards it.

18:54

Yeah, thank you for that. I think you brought up a really

18:57

good point about spinning the narrative to be in your favor.

19:00

And I think, you know, especially looking back at, you know,

19:02

my match cycle versus you know, your guys' most recent one,

19:06

you know, things like having, you know,

19:08

most meaningful experiences that you can highlight

19:10

and obviously you have a personal statement as well

19:12

where you can address, you know, some key things.

19:15

Uh, I think that's a very strategic way to kind

19:17

of pinpoint your interviewer

19:19

to asking you those specific questions, right?

19:21

So there's some leadership activity

19:23

or some research activity that you found

19:25

to be very meaningful to who you are.

19:28

You know, being able to highlight

19:29

that in your personal statement and you know, one way

19:31

and then also as one of your meaningful experiences

19:33

that you know, you're able to, to pick on, uh,

19:36

your era a s application.

19:38

I think that's a prob that's probably a very strategic

19:40

and beneficial way to kind

19:42

of help steer your interviewer towards

19:44

asking more about that.

19:48

So our next question is gonna be about away rotations.

19:52

So Michael, we'll start with you.

19:54

You know, did you do any away rotations?

19:56

How did you go about picking which away to do

19:59

and do you feel like it played any role in, uh, you know,

20:02

getting an interview at a program

20:04

or, uh, affecting your interview day period?

20:09

Yeah, so I was at a medical school without a home

20:11

radiology residency program.

20:14

Uh, so I felt like I needed to do in a way, uh,

20:17

to get some exposure, some experience

20:19

and maybe a letter of rec.

20:21

Uh, in hindsight, my away was not very helpful at all.

20:27

Uh, I did it at a, at one of the top programs

20:31

and I think it's important to talk to people

20:35

who have done aways at certain programs

20:37

because like every away is different.

20:41

And I'll plug Wake Forest because I'm biased,

20:43

but um, they have a great away rotation program

20:47

where you work directly with an attending and you dictate

20:50

and you sort of practice radiology, whereas,

20:55

and there are other programs like that,

20:57

I just don't know all of them.

20:58

Um, but other programs, like the one I was at,

21:01

I was functionally shadowing.

21:03

I wasn't even with the residents,

21:04

I was just shadowing fellows.

21:07

I barely saw the attendings for a month.

21:09

And so, I mean, I got some out of it from the fellows

21:13

who were willing to interrupt their workflow to teach me.

21:17

Um, but in terms of what I was hoping for,

21:22

I don't think that that experience helped me much

21:25

because I wasn't doing much.

21:27

Uh, and I wasn't able to get a good letter of Rick

21:29

because I wasn't spending much time with the attendings.

21:33

So talk to people as much as you can if you're trying

21:36

to do it away, or I guess you guys already are doing aways

21:39

at this point if you're 2025.

21:40

But uh, for anyone in classes below that,

21:44

not every away rotation is the same experience.

21:47

And the ones where you can really get your hands dirty

21:51

and they have a curriculum

21:53

for you are gonna really serve you well in my opinion.

21:58

That's really good insight. Aria, how about you?

22:01

Yeah, so I'll say I, I had like a little bit

22:03

of a different perspective.

22:05

So I had always heard, right, like Michael said, a lot

22:08

of radiology rotations, you don't really do much, you sort

22:10

of just hang out, um, you're kind of shadowing.

22:13

And so I kind of went in with that expectation.

22:15

I wasn't really going in to learn a ton of radiology,

22:19

but my main goal was

22:20

to see if a program was a good fit for me.

22:22

And so I was most fearful of, you know,

22:26

people always say like, oh on, you know, virtual interviews,

22:29

you don't really get to get a feel for a program.

22:30

And so for my oh eight rotations, I decided to go to places

22:34

that I thought would be potentially good locations for me

22:37

to be close to my family just to see

22:39

what the programs are like.

22:40

And I spoke with residents that were there just

22:42

to see if it would be a good fit.

22:44

And I mean I had some that I thought would be, you know,

22:47

amazing and they were okay

22:48

and then I had some that I thought would be okay

22:50

and they're amazing and it really just depended on the

22:52

people for me.

22:53

Um, I do agree that I think that if you're going to a place

22:56

that teaches more, it'll definitely make it more engaging.

22:58

Otherwise it's really grueling to sit there

23:01

for a whole day doing nothing.

23:02

So I think that would've definitely helped.

23:04

But for me, I think going to a program that has great people

23:09

was the biggest pull for me over anything.

23:11

And I, that really helped me set my mind on like, you know,

23:14

where I wanna place these programs on my rank list

23:16

or for signaling and stuff like that.

23:18

And so I think, oh,

23:19

and then on top of that I just wanna add like if you're not

23:21

able to do oas, I don't think it's the end

23:24

of the world in radiology.

23:25

I think a lot of people do feel fearful about that,

23:28

but I really do feel like if you're not able to

23:30

for monetary reasons, for like, you know, school

23:32

or scheduling reasons, don't freak out.

23:34

It's okay. Um, do whatever you can

23:36

and just reach out to programs if you're interested in

23:39

speaking with a resident or attending or anything.

23:40

People are usually pretty friendly about that,

23:43

so, so don't worry about that.

23:47

Yeah, thank you Aria, that, that's really good insight.

23:49

And I, I think it basically shows that, you know,

23:52

everyone has different experiences when they're

23:53

on their away rotations.

23:54

You know, as Michael mentioned, you know, he found some

23:56

of his weren't extremely beneficial from a learning

23:59

perspective, but then as Aria mentioned,

24:01

was beneficial from just learning about

24:03

the culture of a program.

24:05

Uh, so, you know, it definitely widely varies

24:07

and you know, I think kind of being proactive ta reaching

24:10

out to the residents beforehand, talking to other, you know,

24:13

applicants or people who've matched in the classes above you

24:16

who could probably give you some insight on different places

24:18

that they may have rotated at, is a really beneficial tool.

24:22

I'm curious, you know, from a program

24:24

director's perspective, how do you guys look at away

24:27

rotations when individuals have rotated at your program?

24:30

Does it weigh in on their, uh, you know,

24:32

when you guys are looking at your rank list?

24:34

So Dr. Faraji, if you wanna start off there,

24:38

Um, yeah, I mean it depends on the student, right?

24:40

So if they're local and they have the choice

24:45

to rotate at maybe two

24:46

or three different places in their local geographic region

24:49

and they ultimately elected not to rotate here, it kind

24:53

of gives us some information about their interest.

24:55

But I mean, if they also signal then

24:57

that's conflicting information.

24:58

We probably look at the signal a

24:59

little bit more strongly than that.

25:01

But in general, if we have

25:05

firsthand experience with an applicant

25:07

and we've gotten to know them

25:09

and we've been able

25:10

to observe their behavior in their reading room

25:12

and to directly observe, you know, their medical knowledge

25:15

and engagement and things like that, it does,

25:18

it is a strong, um, something I view strongly.

25:23

That being said, that is like a large minority of the,

25:27

of the applicants, um,

25:28

or a small minority of the applicants that we have

25:30

that opportunity and experience with.

25:33

And also it's kind of relatively challenging

25:36

as some people have alluded to,

25:37

to really like blow someone away on a radiology rotation.

25:41

So it's not the end of the world that you have.

25:43

So I guess the, the short of it is it can be impactful

25:47

but it's not necessary.

25:49

Um, and you know,

25:51

but if you do have the opportunity to do that,

25:53

I would pursue it and just be genuinely engaged, um,

25:58

to a degree where your interest has been expressed,

26:02

but not so much that you are asking too many questions

26:05

or obstructing the workflow and things like that.

26:11

Dr. Che, anything to add?

26:14

Um, so I agree with everything you just said.

26:16

Um, having said that though, the Mario, the people

26:20

who do come from other places to rotate with us,

26:24

they actually get to work with all our residents

26:26

'cause we're pretty much resident driven, um, programs.

26:29

So, um, I get all the feedback from the residents, you know,

26:32

and basically the, they're gonna be the people

26:35

that the students are gonna be working with.

26:38

So, um, you know, it's nice to get that feedback.

26:42

Um, the other thing is you do really have to be proactive.

26:45

I mean, if you're just shadowing people,

26:47

you can just sit in a room and not be noticed at all.

26:49

But a lot of them did ask for, um,

26:54

not interviews per se, but time to talk to me

26:57

and the vice chair of education and all that.

27:00

So while they were at Hershey, we, we did accommodate that.

27:03

So we met with them and talked to them

27:05

and, you know, told 'em what they need to do, et cetera.

27:08

The other really good thing is to, uh,

27:10

maybe even do a very small quick research project.

27:14

For example, you know, writing an AMSTER case

27:16

or if there's a cancer conference,

27:18

'cause you know, tumor conferences are happening every day,

27:21

all over ask if you wanna present.

27:24

So if there's like a really motivated proactive student

27:26

and they, like for example, come to the breast center

27:29

and they wanna present a case, like nobody asks that, right?

27:32

Nobody ever says I wanna do it.

27:33

So when they do ask, it's like, oh my goodness,

27:35

here's somebody who's really proactive,

27:37

who's really interested.

27:39

Absolutely, we'll get you prepared and you practice

27:41

and they prepare at the conference.

27:43

So, um, couple of the students have done that,

27:46

which was pretty nice.

27:47

So if you do do away rotations,

27:50

I'd recommend being very proactive

27:52

but not to a level where you're a nuisance.

27:54

'cause we had one like that.

27:56

I just, I met with them so many times

27:58

and they just kept coming back for more stuff

28:00

and I was getting really irritated

28:02

'cause I was really, really busy.

28:04

So that, that wasn't very good at all.

28:08

Alright. Yeah, I think that's fantastic.

28:11

Be proactive, maybe not a little too proactive.

28:14

Well thank you for that. Uh, you know, as Ashley alluded to,

28:18

you know, step one has had a lot

28:20

of major changes in the last few years

28:23

and now the majority of applicants, if not all of them,

28:25

will be applying without a actual numeric score associated

28:29

with your step one exam.

28:31

So how are you guys

28:32

as program directors looking at this now?

28:35

Do you guys put more weight onto step two, um,

28:38

from a numerical score perspective?

28:40

Or do you guys, uh, affect different weights on, uh,

28:44

other different parts of the application?

28:46

I know we talked about signaling,

28:47

but do you guys weigh research

28:49

or leadership more heavily than you would've in the

28:51

past to make up for that?

28:53

Uh, now pass fail step one, Dr. Ji, we'll start with you.

28:59

Sure. I mean, yeah,

29:01

the step scores are obviously important part

29:05

of the application, but they by no means, um,

29:09

really are, are that, you know, they're not a super

29:12

emphasizing, uh, we don't emphasize it.

29:14

I mean it's something that maybe we use to like

29:17

wean the very, very large applicant pool

29:20

to a more manageable applicant pool.

29:23

But we do have a relatively lenient, I would say, um,

29:28

you know, cutoff so to speak, I guess.

29:31

Um, yeah, so if someone has a step two

29:35

and a step one score, I think someone asked

29:36

that in the group chat, I think

29:38

that is useful information to have.

29:40

It's just more data and I'm always in

29:42

favor of having more data.

29:43

Um, and also, you know, it, it can be helpful for example,

29:47

if you maybe didn't perform well on one of the two, it shows

29:52

that you're capable of performing well on the other one,

29:54

you know, and sometimes tests you just have a bad day.

29:56

So, um, you know, we try not to read too much into it,

30:00

but it is a factor that we consider

30:02

and, um, use to kind of help form our ultimate,

30:06

uh, interview pool.

30:10

Thank you for that. Uh, Dr. Che, your perspective.

30:14

Yeah, so since step one is pass

30:16

and fail, obviously we wanna make sure

30:18

that everyone passed the first one

30:19

and then the numerical score

30:21

for the second one has become more important now.

30:24

'cause before we used to look at just step one,

30:26

but we never had a, like a set cutoff.

30:29

Like I know some programs if you score below this number,

30:32

you know, that application is not looked at.

30:35

We, we have a very low bar of that, um,

30:37

because you know, it's just one day

30:40

and you may have done a, you know, you may have been sick

30:42

or something was wrong or whatever.

30:43

So we don't place a huge emphasis on that.

30:46

We're more into, you know, um, the academic, um,

30:51

you know, evaluations on their rotations.

30:53

So the three main areas we look at are, you know, medicine,

30:58

surgery, you know, that those two main,

31:03

you know, sub internships per se or rotations

31:05

and how you did on that.

31:07

And also the three, uh, important, you know, experiences

31:12

that we were just talking about.

31:13

Um, we look at that and then, um, you know,

31:18

geographic preferences as well.

31:20

So, uh, it's not that important to us.

31:25

Great, thank you for that perspective.

31:28

Our next questions will have to do with letters

31:29

of recommendation.

31:31

So for Aria and Michael, you know,

31:33

how did you guys go about getting letters of recommendation?

31:36

How many radiology letters did you use?

31:39

You know, were there certain faculty that you worked with

31:42

that you felt that would be good to ask for a letter from?

31:45

Or did you do it based on their leadership positions

31:48

within a certain department?

31:49

If you guys could share your perspective on that.

31:51

Michael, we'll start with you.

31:55

Yeah, so I just had one radiology letter.

31:59

I had a pathology letter, uh, internal medicine for my AI

32:04

and then a family medicine letter.

32:06

Um, and all

32:07

of these people had seen me clinically at some point

32:10

and um, all of them except for the I am ai,

32:14

one had known me for more than six weeks at a time.

32:19

Uh, so I think the longitudinal relationship allows people

32:22

to actually say something meaningful about you.

32:25

Uh, so if you can find people who know you really well

32:28

and you've been working on a project with them

32:31

and you've done a rotation with them, you know,

32:33

something like that is the ideal situation I think.

32:36

Um, but I think one radiology letter I was advised,

32:39

one radiology letter is sufficient, uh,

32:41

because you only do so much

32:43

and they can only say so much about

32:45

you in terms of getting it.

32:49

Um, just during your time with them at some point mention

32:54

that you really enjoyed working with them, you think

32:57

that they, um, could write really well about you

33:01

and in the future you'd be, you'll be coming back to them

33:04

and asking them about a letter of rec depending on

33:06

how far out are you, how far out you are from

33:10

your a application.

33:12

It seems daunting, but most

33:13

people are more than happy to write them.

33:18

Absolutely. Aria, I think to add,

33:20

Yeah, I, I essentially echo all of that.

33:22

I also only had one radiology letter.

33:25

Um, I also focus on longevity, so like people

33:27

that had known me for a long time, my other letter was

33:30

with a research mentor, he was an OB gyn

33:32

and then I had one who was for im.

33:34

And so, um, I think that if you have like good relationships

33:37

with someone that can speak well to you, like Michael said,

33:40

definitely go for that.

33:41

And I guess like one thing to add is like, don't be afraid

33:43

to ask them a little earlier than you would think.

33:46

You know, like they're busy

33:47

and people might also be asking them for letters,

33:49

so like just shoot them an email.

33:51

Even just giving them a heads up just

33:53

so they can have it on their radar

33:54

because um, they have a lot

33:56

of stuff going on at that time as well.

33:57

And you don't wanna be panicking, you know,

33:59

when applications are due and they don't wanna be panicking.

34:01

So don't be afraid to ask a little bit earlier just so

34:04

that they can start working on it.

34:07

Yeah, I think those are really fantastic tips.

34:09

I think layers of recommendation are a very daunting thing

34:13

for the application one and probably mainly

34:16

because it's the one thing that's pretty much out

34:17

of your control once you ask for it, right?

34:19

So you're really hoping that whoever you ask

34:22

for actually completes it on time.

34:23

You feel a little annoying pestering them saying, Hey,

34:26

it's been a month application's coming up, do you mind uh,

34:29

uploading that anytime soon?

34:31

And you get closer to the application deadline

34:33

and you start swaying a little bit.

34:34

But I think being proactive, uh, letting you know the person

34:37

that you either rotated with

34:39

or you know, are planning on asking for a letter, um,

34:41

just know ahead of time that you're planning, uh,

34:44

to get a letter from them and send them all the information

34:46

they need far in advance is a really smart skill to have.

34:51

It'd be interesting to hear from our program directors,

34:53

you know, what makes a good letter recommendation

34:55

from a bad one.

34:57

And what tips do you have for our applicants?

35:00

Um, as far as who they should ask for letters from,

35:02

I know I, you know, when I was an applicant,

35:04

some people felt that you need

35:05

to get a letter from a department head.

35:08

Um, but you know, in, in my experience it was always better

35:10

to not really care so much about the title

35:12

of the person writing the letter,

35:14

but more about their experiences with you

35:16

and how well they know you.

35:18

So it'd be great to hear from our

35:19

program directors in that regard.

35:20

Uh, Dr. Che, we can start with you.

35:25

Um, to be honest, most

35:28

of the recommendations letters are very, very good.

35:31

So it's really difficult to say.

35:34

I mean, everyone

35:35

that you're gonna ask is gonna

35:36

hopefully give you a good one.

35:37

So it's extraordinarily rare that you get a bad one.

35:41

So unless it's bad,

35:42

pretty much everyone has really good ones.

35:45

Uh, so it's difficult, you know, um, having said that,

35:49

I I would say majority of the applicants had one radiologist

35:53

and then couple of clinical, uh, people writing the letters.

35:57

And I don't put more emphasis on a PD or a program director

36:01

or a chair except for people who are reapplying.

36:04

So if you didn't match

36:06

and you were doing a transitional year

36:07

or whatever year you're doing,

36:09

if you don't send us a recommendation from the PD of

36:12

that one year, that's a big red flag for us.

36:15

So if you are reapplying,

36:16

make sure you get a good letter from the PD

36:18

in the program that you're in.

36:23

Yeah. Dr. Pji. Thanks Sal.

36:27

Um, I echo that I, yeah, we, I don't really care

36:31

so much about if the title of the letter writer.

36:35

Um, sometimes if I know the letter writer personally, um,

36:39

it can be a little bit more impactful

36:40

because you can just place a little bit

36:42

more weight on that letter.

36:44

Um, and in our geographic region there's like some letter

36:47

writers that I, I just know from the various

36:49

conferences and things like that.

36:50

Um, and it's important when you're asking someone

36:53

to write you a letter, I was given this advice,

36:56

but like it's important to ask,

36:58

do you feel comfortable writing me a strong letter

37:00

of recommendation rather than just writing

37:01

me a letter of recommendation?

37:04

I think that can be useful

37:05

because some people will know you, um, well enough to agree

37:09

to write you one but not well enough to really be able

37:12

to write you a strong one.

37:13

So maybe it means like you have to sit down

37:16

with them in the reading room for a little bit longer

37:18

or have a more substantial conversation about your interests

37:21

and and why you want to do radiology

37:23

to help them write that stronger letter.

37:25

But I think it's important to offer, um, any sort of time or

37:29

or arrangement to, to provide the relevant information.

37:33

I mean things that I'm particularly looking for in a letter

37:36

of recommendation are, you know,

37:38

why does this person wanna pursue radiology?

37:41

I know that's in the personal statement,

37:42

but if it's echoed in the letters of recommendation

37:45

that it's been discussed

37:47

and that person is very certain that this,

37:50

that you are dedicated

37:51

and you know, know that you wanna do radiology also,

37:55

you know, what your demeanor was in the reading room

37:58

or if you had meaningful research experiences

38:02

or maybe you were, you were a team player helping patients

38:05

get from the bed to the CT gantry for example.

38:08

Things like that. Just someone who engages with the team.

38:12

And then I know it can be difficult to do that sometimes,

38:15

but there are ways that a medical student can engage on a

38:18

clinical rotation, even if it's just observational.

38:21

I mean there's all sorts of questions

38:23

that come up when I'm reading a case

38:25

and it's useful to have someone else look those things up.

38:30

Some relevant pieces of information during a readout to,

38:33

to kind of add to the group.

38:35

So things like that, um,

38:36

that can be added into a letter can help to

38:39

convey an applicant's clinical or medical knowledge and

38:44

and engagement and team engagement and things like that.

38:47

So, you know, are you dedicated to field, how do you know

38:50

and you know, what were you like in the reading room

38:53

or during research experiences and things like that.

38:55

Are you self-driven? Um, things like that.

38:59

So, but yeah, it doesn't matter who writes it,

39:01

but if I know them personally,

39:02

maybe a little bit more impactful I guess.

39:07

Yeah. Thank you for that Dr. Farage.

39:08

I think that's really valuable insight.

39:10

I'm gonna hand things back over to Ashley now.

39:14

Okay, great. So this next question will be for Michael.

39:17

Did you send, um, programs either pre

39:19

or post interview emails?

39:25

So I tried to avoid that.

39:27

Uh, I did the thank you notes

39:29

and then as the interview season went on, I got, I got lazy

39:34

with the thank thinking notes too.

39:36

Um, pre-interview emails I didn't need to do

39:40

'cause I was fortunate to receive interviews from the places

39:43

that I was really interested in.

39:45

I have heard of some people being very successful with that.

39:48

Um, if you miss like the first wave

39:50

of interviews from a program

39:51

and then you really have a compelling reason that you want

39:55

to interview there, sending a message

39:57

and just getting them to take a closer look at your

39:59

application, uh, can be helpful.

40:02

I really favored the programs

40:04

that were explicit about not communicating,

40:07

following the interview, uh, because it kept it simpler

40:11

and the gamesmanship of sending uh, emails

40:15

after the fact annoyed me.

40:18

Uh, so yeah, I steered clear of it and it worked out for me.

40:22

I don't know that I would recommend that

40:23

because it works for other people to send them.

40:26

So, uh, sort of it's up

40:29

to each individual person what they think.

40:33

I also, I had every intention of sending a thank you email

40:36

to every single person I interviewed with.

40:37

'cause when you're interviewing it's so exciting

40:39

and you get to connect and meet people

40:40

and it's really an amazing time.

40:42

But also it was a daunting task

40:44

and so I didn't do it stick out when,

40:46

especially when there's 12 interviewers on a single day,

40:48

that is 'cause you wanna thank everybody, right?

40:51

Like the program coordinator for setting it up.

40:53

I mean it, it get, it becomes a lot quickly.

40:55

Aria, I do know your answer for some of this,

40:57

but can you talk a little bit about your pre

40:59

and post, um, interview emails

41:01

and how they helped you if they did?

41:03

Yeah, so for my pre, I did send a few

41:06

because there were a few programs that I hadn't heard from

41:08

that I really wanted to interview with.

41:11

Um, my tip for those, I do agree

41:13

that they can be successful,

41:15

but I think it's best to keep them short and sweet.

41:17

Like I literally wrote two lines.

41:20

I was like, um, you know, my main, my name is blank.

41:22

I'm really interested in your program for blank.

41:24

Like, and I would love to interview you if you don't get an

41:27

interview, don't take it personally like they're seeing

41:30

literally like thousands of emails I'm sure.

41:32

Um, but I don't think it hurts If you really do feel

41:35

strongly about a program, like Michael said,

41:37

if you have a connection, if you feel really like attuned to

41:39

that program, shoot your shot, you know,

41:41

you don't wanna regret it later.

41:43

Um, so I do think that it works for some people for sure

41:46

for post interview.

41:48

I sort of decided like earlier on that if I felt sort

41:52

of like really compelled to a program,

41:54

if I really felt a good connection

41:55

and I had something I could actually talk about,

41:58

I would send a thank you.

42:00

I know it's impossible to be like super chipper

42:03

and super happy after every single interview.

42:05

You're not gonna feel the same kind of connection

42:07

to every single program and that is okay.

42:10

That's why you're trying to find the best fit for you.

42:12

And so if you feel compelled to send a thank you,

42:14

if you feel like you really connected

42:15

with someone about something, like feel free.

42:18

Um, I do agree it can be really exhausting to sort

42:21

of be like, okay, I have to send thank yous to everybody.

42:23

And so I sort of just set a rule for myself

42:26

that if I really felt compelled

42:27

and I really felt a connection to a program,

42:29

I'd say thank you because it felt genuine.

42:32

Um, but I also echo the fact

42:34

that I really appreciated when programs said

42:36

that you don't have to send us thank yous

42:38

because it sort of is like a unspoken rule.

42:41

Like, oh, we don't want you to send thank yous,

42:43

but then you're like, oh, should I send thank yous?

42:45

And so I think when programs say like, you don't have

42:47

to send us thank you is we have enough sort

42:49

of like going on on our own side,

42:51

that really helped I feel like a lot

42:53

of applicants out, including myself.

42:54

So

42:58

Can you briefly touch on, um,

43:00

your thoughts on uh, letters of intent?

43:03

Yeah, I think that if you feel certain about a program,

43:07

uh, I don't think it's a bad thing to say like,

43:11

and just let them know.

43:12

I know specific programs tell you do not send us letters

43:15

of intent or don't send us thank yous.

43:17

Do not send it.

43:19

If they say that that is like, I feel like don't do that,

43:22

you know, they're saying that for a specific reason.

43:24

Um, I sort of decided on my letter

43:27

of intent just based on feeling,

43:29

which I don't know if you guys have like

43:30

interpreted from my responses.

43:32

I just sort of go on like how I feel when I like decide

43:34

to do certain things and it panned out okay for me.

43:37

But if you feel strongly about a program, um, send it

43:40

to one program, don't send it to multiple programs.

43:42

Send it to one program and be honest about

43:45

why you feel that way.

43:46

It can be emotional, it can be

43:48

serious, whatever your vibe is.

43:50

I think programs, um, whether or not they respond, whether

43:52

or not they read it, you don't really know.

43:54

But for me it made me feel good when I made my final

43:57

decision to send that out because I was sort of like, okay,

43:59

you know, I've done everything I can,

44:00

I've put it out into the universe

44:02

and then, you know, we'll see what happens.

44:06

Excellent. Um, Dr.

44:07

Cha, I was wondering do these post-interview correspondence

44:10

more so like letters of intent

44:12

or second looks impact the rank?

44:16

No, it does not. Um,

44:18

we don't specifically say don't send thank you letters,

44:20

but it's pretty unusual now to get thank you notes.

44:24

So when you do send it, we notice it actually.

44:27

And when I interviewed, you know, basically

44:30

we said thank you to every single one.

44:32

'cause we were only, I mean, I never went

44:35

above 35 to begin with.

44:37

I wouldn't apply to, I couldn't stand it.

44:40

Uh, but you know,

44:41

if you are gonna be interviewing at a zillion

44:43

places, I can totally get it.

44:44

But, uh, we rarely get anything like that now.

44:47

So it's really nice when somebody sends it to you

44:50

and I'm like, oh, that's so sweet, that's so nice.

44:52

You know? Um,

44:53

but you know, we don't go in the rank order go, oh check,

44:57

thank you, thank you.

44:58

Note, but check. No thank you. You know what I mean?

45:01

It doesn't, it doesn't work like that.

45:03

So it um,

45:04

and we haven't actually specifically

45:06

say don't thank you notes.

45:08

'cause normally people don't.

45:09

So, um, but like I said, when I do get it

45:12

and I connect it with them, it's really nice to get

45:18

Dr. Raji. Any additional

45:19

thoughts on

45:20

post-interview correspondence?

45:21

Sure, yeah, so I agree, thank you.

45:23

Notes are relatively few and far between

45:29

and are nice to receive,

45:31

but not necessarily impactful as far

45:34

as making the rank list.

45:36

That being said, I think letters of intent,

45:38

someone asked about, or like very strong letters close

45:42

to the end of the application cycle,

45:44

although I'm starting to rethink this

45:47

because I've been burned on it like so many times.

45:50

Um, they are,

45:51

they can be helpful if like many applicants are in the same

45:55

kind of pool, you know, so like,

45:57

let's say every sim similar scores, similar, you know,

46:01

geographic preferences

46:03

and various criteria are all very similar.

46:05

Then if someone's like, yeah,

46:07

I'm gonna rank you very highly, then maybe it will help

46:10

to separate two that are in like the same little group.

46:13

Um, but otherwise not super impactful.

46:16

It's not gonna move you from like the middle to the top

46:19

of a rank list or anything like that,

46:21

but in smaller areas it can, depending on the program.

46:23

But that's my view.

46:28

It makes total sense.

46:30

I think this is something like we'll have

46:31

to cover in a different, um, webinar,

46:33

but this idea of like grouping within the rank list is

46:37

so interesting to applicants

46:38

because I think we're always like, oh, we have

46:39

to be number one or, or we won't match there.

46:41

And I don't think that's true. I think there's definitely,

46:42

now that I've been on the other side

46:43

and I participated with interviews

46:45

for my transitional year program this year,

46:47

I definitely understand the, the ranking a little bit more.

46:49

And it's very, very interesting this idea of, um,

46:52

like quartiles almost within the rank list.

46:54

Um, so we have a big topic in radiology

46:56

because it's so competitive right now, is, um, people

46:59

that are reapplying to radiology.

47:01

I think we're so fortunate that radiology is a field

47:04

that is like super generous and graceful

47:07

and views people pretty highly, whether

47:08

or not at they're appoint the first time or second time.

47:11

Um, but we'll start with Dr. Shea.

47:12

Any application strategies, um, tips for somebody

47:15

that's reapplying to radiology this year?

47:17

Um, specifically like do you think they should,

47:20

they should try to do an away rotation?

47:21

I know it's really difficult to do,

47:22

especially if you have like a prelim

47:24

year, um, or anything like that.

47:26

Yeah, so yes, we do look at, um, people who are reapplying

47:30

and we've actually accepted several who, um,

47:33

didn't match the first time.

47:35

Uh, one of the things that we look at is how they spent

47:38

that year, um, strengthening their application.

47:41

So, um, you know, a lot of them actually

47:45

had networking through major organizations.

47:49

For example, a CR or RS NA

47:53

or a UR where they get mentors in the national platform

47:57

and get themselves known to different programs.

48:00

So, um, if we, or you know, even like advocacy

48:04

or, um, you know, kind of signing up for, there's

48:08

so many opportunities for, you know, medical students now

48:13

to get into the national stage.

48:15

So if you do something like that

48:17

and succeed, uh, we really appreciate that.

48:20

Um, and the other thing is you can reach out

48:24

to different program directors in the programs

48:26

that you're really interested in and work with them.

48:29

They can be their mentors. I get, you know,

48:31

requests from people like that.

48:33

So I do try to help them out as much as I can.

48:36

Um, but yeah, they,

48:38

we've actually successfully matched people

48:40

who didn't match the first time round,

48:41

but we want to see some, um, level of,

48:47

um, either more thoughtful interest in radiology

48:51

or more thoughtful engagement in some type of research

48:53

or advocacy or something like that.

48:57

Excellent advice. Dr. Raji, any additional tips?

49:01

Just this question is about second time applicants, right?

49:04

And what, yeah.

49:06

Um, yeah, I mean I think there's no, there's one

49:09

of the strongest ways you can

49:12

convey your genuine interest in the specialty is

49:14

by applying a second time

49:16

after not being accepted the first time.

49:19

Um, so I think that is, it helps, um, for us to, to know

49:23

for sure, you know, that person is definitely interested in

49:27

wanting to be a radiologist.

49:29

Um, and yeah, what have you done, uh, as Dr.

49:31

Che was saying in this, in the interim time

49:33

to strengthen your application?

49:35

You know, whether, and I think engagement on the national

49:37

level is a really, really good example of that

49:39

because there are plenty

49:40

of opportunities in getting your name out there.

49:43

Um, you know, I think anytime a program director

49:47

can become familiar with an applicant's name

49:51

and interests prior to seeing it on paper for the first time

49:55

can help to, you know, to push someone

49:59

into maybe the interview cycle if they weren't previously

50:01

interviewed and things like that.

50:03

So, um, yeah, I mean, I think just engaging and,

50:06

and maybe participating in research if

50:08

that was wherever your weak point of your application was.

50:11

I think engaging in a meaningful way to improve

50:15

that part of your application.

50:17

Um, and also kind of trying to get your name out, uh,

50:20

whether it's via publications

50:22

or national speaking opportunities

50:23

or conference abstracts, things like that.

50:25

Meeting people at the various, various conferences.

50:27

You know, I've, uh, met a lot of folks at conferences

50:30

that we subsequently interviewed

50:32

because, you know, it's just a matter of fact is

50:35

that not every radiology resident is interested in engaging

50:38

in that way or going to conferences.

50:40

Some people just want to come to work and learn

50:42

and read the cases and go home and that's fine too.

50:44

Everybody, you know, does what what is best for them.

50:48

But it's always nice to have someone

50:50

who is interested potentially in

50:53

academic engagement in a more national way, I guess.

50:59

I think that's great. I think one

51:00

of the most exciting parts of radiology,

51:02

I'm super biased about this,

51:03

but is the ways that we're able to connect as radiologists

51:06

and future, future rad rises outside of the reading room.

51:09

Like there's so many amazing opportunities

51:11

and ways to change and shape the field and contribute,

51:13

and I think we all have like

51:14

different strengths and ways to do that.

51:16

So it's super exciting to hear that bds, you value that.

51:19

Um, especially in if you're reapp, I think it's great.

51:21

All the advice we both shared is great

51:23

for first time applicants as well.

51:24

Just get involved, be excited.

51:27

Um, I think that that wrapped up all of our questions

51:30

for the panelists, so we're so, so happy Dr.

51:32

J, Dr. Ji, Dr. Bur and Dr. Ramad could join us today.

51:36

We're so, so happy to that, that, um,

51:38

MRI online modality was able to host us.

51:41

They've always been such gracious hosts.

51:43

Um, and so I know we didn't cover everything

51:46

that everybody wants to hear about, especially when it comes

51:48

to matching radiology, but we have a plethora of resources,

51:51

um, on our website@theradiologyroom.com.

51:54

You can also follow us, Dr. She, Dr.

51:56

Raji, uh, aria and Michael all on Twitter.

51:58

We're all there and there's plenty

52:00

of information in the world.

52:01

So, um, if there's something that we didn't answer,

52:03

please go and look at these resources.

52:05

Um, if there's still something you didn't answer,

52:07

please feel free to reach out to us.

52:09

Um, but thank you all for joining us this afternoon.

52:11

I hope the rest of your day goes very, very well.

52:14

Thanks again. Thank

52:16

You. And thank you so much to the

52:17

RAD Room for, um,

52:18

facilitating that awesome panel.

52:20

This is super valuable to everyone who is here

52:23

and everyone who registered.

52:24

Appreciate all of you.

52:27

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52:29

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52:33

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52:36

so be on the lookout for that.

52:37

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52:39

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52:48

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52:50

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53:01

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