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Hello and welcome to New conference hosted by

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to get access to hundreds of case space micro learning

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courses around all key Radiology subspecialties. Today.

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We are honored to welcome the rad

0:41

room back to the new conference stage. The rad room

0:44

is Ashley Lau a room where rugason and salio Patel

0:47

and they're here to lead a panel discussion about matching into Radiology

0:50

residency. Also a big congratulations to

0:53

them for matching in this year's match.

0:55

They are joined by Dr. Aaron Cook from Vanderbilt University

0:58

Medical Center Dr. Naveed faraji from Case

1:01

Western Reserve University University Hospitals and Dr.

1:04

Emma Ferguson from University of Texas Health Science Center

1:07

at Houston.

1:09

Please remember to use the Q&A feature to submit any

1:12

questions you have so we can get to as many before time is

1:15

up with that. We're ready to begin. Today's panel Ashley

1:18

Sawhill and Arun. Please take it from here.

1:21

All right. So thank you again. Everyone online for letting us

1:24

attend this new conference and give a presentation on matching into

1:27

Radiology. I always really exciting last week

1:30

to see you know, all the hard work for so many students across the

1:33

country who successfully matched and we're really excited

1:36

to have discussion today to reflect on what really

1:39

what we thought program directors valued

1:42

from the application cycle any advice that they have for future applicants

1:45

and we're excited to host this

1:48

today. So our Jennifer today, we're going to start with

1:51

a brief presentation just outlining the current application landscape

1:54

and then we'll transition to our main event, which they're Q&A

1:57

panel session and we'll end with a few closing thoughts.

2:01

So when we look at the current application landscape and Radiology,

2:04

it's really important to notice the trends that

2:07

I've been going on the last few years. So when we look back at

2:10

the nrmp data from 2020 for people who listed

2:13

Diagnostic Radiology as their preferred specially

2:16

so that means we've stratified out any dual appliers who

2:19

may have been preparing to imagine to a surgical substantially

2:22

and then applying Dr. As a backup. We

2:25

saw that there are about 1,017 applicants who

2:28

fell into this category and for the most part if you

2:31

look at the last column students who wanted to do Diagnostic

2:34

Radiology, we're successfully matching. We said that

2:37

USMD and do students. We're in the 90s for match rate and

2:40

International Medical graduates who are in the mid

2:43

to high 60s, but then fast forward to last year's match

2:46

cycle, which is the 2022 data as we're so

2:49

waiting for the 23 dad to be released by The nrmp. We

2:52

saw a drastic change as far as the competitiveness of

2:55

Diagnostic Radiology and last year's match.

2:58

There is a 15% increase in total applicants who

3:01

I had to do Diagnostic Radiology as their preferred

3:04

specially and we look across the different application pools

3:07

first, whether you look at MD versus

3:10

do students International graduates, we saw there was

3:13

a drastic decrease in the actual match rates. And

3:16

each of these different groups. Just going to show the competitive nature

3:19

of radiology and this past match

3:22

like was truly no different.

3:25

So here's an interesting graphic that was created by Dr. Francis dang

3:28

from Hopkins. And essentially he

3:31

wanted to stratify the trends that we've seen the last seven to

3:34

eight years. And when you look at the First Column look

3:37

at the 2015 data, he primarily looked at MD seniors

3:40

as they were the largest population of students that are participating

3:43

in the match for Diagnostic Radiology and he's not

3:46

for the most part these students were successfully matching. You can

3:49

see that there was a 95% match rate in that group.

3:52

But even if you looked at the entire group of

3:55

students whether they were dos or International graduates, the match

3:58

was so pretty high around 88% then if

4:02

you fast forward to this most recent data 2023, and

4:05

this is the preliminary data that was taking from the nrmp.

4:08

We see that the match rates are actually pretty low

4:11

as far as what it was in 2015 and

4:14

that MD seniors were matching it roughly an

4:17

81% rate and for the total population of

4:20

students who are participating in the match, you're looking around the high

4:23

60s. And so this is really

4:25

interesting to know especially for anyone on the call who might be

4:28

a mentor for medical students interested in Radiology particularly

4:31

because the times have changed as far

4:34

as Radiology applications go and I think it's important for advisors and

4:37

mentors to know what exactly they're

4:40

mentees are going into as far as the application landscape and

4:43

Advising their mentees based on this data.

4:47

So here's some recent nrmp data

4:50

from the 2022 match cycle as far students who've

4:53

successfully matched into radiology. And so we

4:56

all made the step one score mainly because in these future Cycles

4:59

majority of applicants will actually have a pass/fail rather

5:02

than an actual concrete three digit score, but I

5:05

think it's important to note that we see it. Basically across the board that

5:08

step two is a pretty competitive

5:11

marker for students who successfully matched in that

5:14

us students were around the 250 or higher range

5:17

International graduates were also competitive in the 240s, but

5:20

I think what's really important to note here is the research

5:23

experience and the abstract publication sections. So

5:26

in a few recent matches, we

5:29

saw that in wasn't necessarily mandatory for

5:32

you to have research experiences abstract Publications within Radiology,

5:35

but look at the most recent 2022 match

5:38

we see that these were actually important factors and

5:41

that a majority of the applicants who did successfully match had

5:44

decent contributions in these areas.

5:47

For non-us International Medical graduates. You

5:50

see that those who successfully match had about 17 combined abstracts

5:53

and Publications showing that showing commitment

5:57

in the field of radiology whether that be through research or other

6:00

means it looks like it's going to be a very important role as being a

6:03

competitive applicant.

6:06

So when we look at that, what are other factors that programs are

6:09

going to start looking forward to really be able to disseminate the

6:12

highest quality applicants and such a

6:15

competitive pool and that's where when you that's really when you want to

6:18

start looking at things like Radiology involvement in extracurriculars other

6:21

that be involvement through your Radiology interest

6:24

group or other organizations or societies Regional

6:27

symposiums things of that nature and

6:30

also community service is something that we've seen a lot of medical students

6:33

be a part of whether that be reaching out

6:36

to local high schools or college campuses to give a lecture

6:39

talk on what exactly is the field of medicine

6:42

like particularly in Radiology what really is

6:45

the role of a radiologist and probably the

6:48

biggest category that we've seen increasing the last few years as leadership

6:51

within Radiology from the medical student standpoint.

6:54

So different organizations such as the American College

6:57

of radiology the radiological Society in

7:00

North America our our organization the rad

7:03

room have different opportunities for medical students to

7:06

have

7:06

Leadership opportunities and with such competitive

7:09

landscape, I think being able to show that you're participating from

7:12

a national standpoint. And these organizations is

7:15

something that could be very valuable not only for your own

7:18

skills as a leader but also for networking and really getting to

7:21

know people within the specialty. So I think those are some factors that

7:24

you should definitely be aware of and take the most of if you

7:27

have that opportunity.

7:29

So now I want to fast forward to the most recent

7:32

errors application. So the 2023 cycle

7:35

we saw the Advent of something called the supplemental application that

7:38

introduced things such as program signals Geographic

7:41

preferences meaningful experiences. And in

7:44

the 2024 cycle rather than having an entirely new

7:47

supplemental application. They're actually embedding all

7:50

that content into the main errors application. The notable

7:53

changes that are coming is playing a cap

7:56

at the total number of experiences that you can list at 10,

7:59

but more importantly one thing that both programs

8:02

and applicants wide was the opportunity to highlight the

8:05

most meaningful ones after listening so many

8:08

experiences. What do you want programs really know about you as far

8:11

as the key takeaways about who you are and your application and

8:14

that's where being able to Signal essentially

8:17

your three most meaningful experiences will come into play. I think

8:20

the most important changes that a lot of applicants

8:23

really want to know about our signals and how fast

8:26

step one is going to be utilized by programs.

8:30

And at our last webinar last week with Dr. Lulu Zhang

8:33

from the University of Cincinnati. She mentioned that

8:36

in the upcoming cycle, they're actually expanding the total numbers

8:39

signals and having different tiers. I believe it's

8:42

a gold tier and maybe a silver tier and so it's gonna

8:45

be interesting to know how program directors and mentors would

8:48

think about strategizing how you use signals and really

8:51

trying to maximize your total output on comparing those

8:54

signals into actual interview invitations. And ultimately

8:57

how will a past few step one impact upcoming

9:00

cycle.

9:03

Now with that I like to transition to our Q&A panel. So

9:06

like we mentioned earlier we were so excited to be

9:09

joined by Dr. Cook from Vanderbilt Dr. Faraji from

9:12

University Hospitals Case Western and Dr. Ferguson from

9:15

UT Houston. So thank you so much for participating

9:18

today and for giving your time to all these applicants with

9:21

that. I like to hand things over to arunan Ashley

9:24

who will be moderating the session.

9:26

Great. Thank you Sahel. And thanks for that wonderful presentation, excellent

9:29

information and data you shared

9:32

so we're gonna get this the Q&A start off

9:35

first with Dr. Ferguson the first questions for you and the doctor

9:38

Cook Dr. Faraji. Feel free to chime in after Dr. Ferguson

9:41

has gone. Um, but the first question is is that

9:44

Med students tend to focus on data points,

9:47

obviously as we just highlighted here, do you believe that extracurriculars

9:50

are as important for students to consider? I know

9:53

there's certain extracurricular activities that you value more when

9:56

you're evaluating Radiology applicants, Dr. Ferguson.

10:02

Hi.

10:05

Everyone pleasure. I really appreciate the invitation.

10:07

So yes, obviously grades and

10:10

scores are important, you know, as is reflected in the data that

10:13

you just showed. So that's very important. However, that's

10:16

not the only thing that we look

10:19

at. I know what UT Houston we do a holistic review

10:22

of applicants. And so

10:25

yes extracurriculars are important and

10:28

there are things I mean, we certainly look at the whole applicant. So

10:32

if you know if an applicant may be has more

10:35

or less kind of

10:37

Add more average types of grades or scores again.

10:40

We're looking at the whole applicant. So there are other extracurriculars

10:43

that are very meaningful and very important like you

10:46

had mentioned earlier more and more students are doing community outreach

10:49

projects. We've seen a lot of applications from

10:52

students who are into you know,

10:55

pipeline programs. They've created their own pipeline programs. We've

10:58

seen some amazing applications this

11:01

past year of community service, for example,

11:04

how if a student does a

11:07

lot of mentoring or tutoring or spends a lot of time with community

11:10

outreach projects. It's very

11:13

very meaningful in doing Innovative creative

11:16

different things

11:19

that people do like what you're doing with the rad room all of

11:22

that would for us way very heavily

11:25

into our decision so grades and

11:28

scores are good. We want to make sure that students are able to you know

11:31

to to do Radiology to pass their

11:34

core exam to take standardized test.

11:37

But for us that's not everything and we really love to have

11:40

students from all backgrounds areas of expertise

11:43

and training and experiences because

11:46

it really enriches our program. So we like to

11:49

see a lot of that. So we do certainly look at extracurriculars that

11:52

is important for us.

11:58

I completely agree at Vanderbilt.

12:01

Also, we have a large focus on diversity of

12:04

experience and diversity of backgrounds and a lot

12:08

of our our residents come

12:11

in and have had some type of life experience that is

12:14

quite meaningful. Whether it's in education or even on

12:17

the business side. Some of them have an MBA. So if

12:20

you have other skills like that that is something that we look upon

12:23

very favorably so yeah having the

12:26

education background very important, but beyond that

12:29

there are many other things that can really

12:32

spur us to take a second look and there's that

12:35

kind of things that you really want to highlight in your application.

12:39

Yeah, I Echo everything that doctors cook

12:42

in Ferguson mentioned. The only

12:45

other thing I would add is just sometimes a unique.

12:48

Extracurricular activity can make an applicant memorable

12:51

for me. For example, I have

12:54

a fondness for Ultimate Frisbee and there's not many

12:57

of us who at least willingly advertise that on application.

13:00

So that's something that you know, I think

13:03

just a unique aspect of

13:06

yourself be don't be afraid to kind of convey that

13:09

or display that in your application just to make you know,

13:12

make you stand out from the crowd. So in

13:15

addition to everything they said I just would encourage

13:18

everybody to you not be afraid to

13:21

convey something that's personally interesting

13:24

and important to you.

13:28

Great. Thank you for those really thoughtful answers

13:31

and I'm on a similar vein. This next question is direct

13:34

for you, Dr. Cook aside from board scores and research.

13:37

What do you think makes a strong Diagnostic Radiology

13:40

applicant?

13:42

Excellent question. So we also

13:45

take a holistic approach and certainly there

13:48

are the Baseline factors, but there's also that

13:51

X Factor. So what is it that people are bringing into

13:54

the program that they're going to be contributing to

13:57

the department that's going to be something special. So those are

14:00

the types of features we're looking for so the experience but

14:03

then also in combination with things that

14:06

documents why the person is

14:09

attracted to Radiology what type

14:12

of commitment they have to the field that's

14:15

something that is really important to

14:18

assess because sometimes we have people applying who

14:21

are maybe Stellar academically have

14:25

a really high level

14:28

research, but it's not clear of their true interest in radiology

14:31

and we have questions about that. So to really

14:34

be an excellent applicant and we want the well-rounded application

14:37

as far as a solid background academically something

14:40

about you that makes

14:42

Stand out from your experiences and also that dedication to

14:45

the field.

14:48

And I would also say I completely agree with all of that.

14:51

Those are those are items that we look for as well

14:54

for us. Also everybody who gets

14:57

an interview at our program. They're pretty much on

15:00

equal footing. So at that point, we're really just

15:03

looking for applicants who you know,

15:06

like you said, it's that X Factor who fit in well that their team

15:09

players their professional you enjoy talking

15:12

to them. They would be easy to get along with they would you

15:15

know work well with others and one of

15:18

the things that's very important for us that we look at is on

15:21

the the mspe all the comments that

15:24

are written about the applicant, you know, if we

15:27

see that somebody consistently receives good

15:30

comments on every rotation, you know

15:33

showed up on time took great care of

15:36

patients was a team player, you know with the extra

15:39

mile. We have a lot of good evidence then that that's going to

15:42

be a really solid applicant to

15:45

join our program. So comments like that are very

15:48

Very important and again kind of going a little bit back to the to the

15:51

prior question. I would much rather see consistently

15:54

good comments about an application

15:57

over a long, you know enduring period

16:00

of time rather than just one really outstanding for

16:03

you know, step score. So we really

16:06

do look at everything and I I like to see

16:09

that somebody is just consistently performing. Well then we

16:12

know that okay. They're they're good the comments about them are good.

16:15

That's what we're looking for. And then you meet them and they have good communication

16:18

skills. They're able to talk to have a good discussion

16:21

with you and that kind of sort of seals the deal for

16:24

us.

16:26

Yeah, I would just emphasize the importance

16:29

of longitudinal if

16:32

both evaluations from like, you

16:35

know, a teamwork standpoint, but longitudinal studying

16:38

as far as those successful, I've found

16:41

the best Radiology residents that I have encountered are ones

16:44

who do not wait for an examination to come

16:47

up in order to prompt them to study in our studying on

16:50

a daily basis and a longitudinal fashion.

16:53

You can really tell when you're giving conference or when you're

16:56

you know Staffing out with someone types of questions that they're asking you can

16:59

give you information about how much they're reading

17:02

or how much they're not reading. And so if you can convey on

17:05

your application or in your personal statement or in

17:08

your interview in some way that you know, you've kind of you've got

17:11

a lot of discipline and you you are able

17:15

to study, you know on a day to day basis, you know, I'm a

17:18

reasonable human being I've got a family and stuff at home

17:21

trying to go home and watch Netflix sometimes too. But if

17:24

you can, you know read for 45

17:26

today or an hour a day just about the cases that you've

17:29

encountered that day and conveyed to your interviewer that

17:32

you know, you've got this system figured out. I think at

17:35

least for our program. That's something that we're definitely looking

17:38

for someone who's kind of figured out how they learn best and how

17:41

they study and our intent on doing

17:44

that and reproducible reliable way.

17:48

Awesome, great the great points. I think what

17:51

I get out of that's just consistency longitudinally for studying and

17:54

character and I think that those are all excellent points

17:57

Beyond just a singular board score great

18:00

point. So that's awesome. Our fun.

18:03

Our next question is for you Dr. Faraji. So do you

18:06

have any general advice for personal statements and should

18:09

applicants address perceived red flags in their personal

18:12

statements in your opinion?

18:14

Yeah, great question.

18:17

So yeah personal statements.

18:20

I would say.

18:23

You know depending on as far as the red

18:26

flags are concerned. I do think it's appropriate to to

18:29

kind of address any bread Flags

18:32

because they're gonna come up on your application in one

18:35

way or another and this is your chance to kind of

18:38

convey why that should not be as much of an

18:41

issue as it may demonstrate on other parts of your application. So

18:44

I think it is appropriate to do that. But I

18:47

would not waste a lot of time or

18:50

space on your personal statement kind of perseverating over

18:53

that because really we want to know why we should

18:56

interview you and not why we should overlook a

18:59

small here, you know red flag on your application. So would say

19:02

yes address it but I wouldn't you know spend too

19:05

much of your your valuable precious space

19:08

addressing that and if anybody disagrees, please

19:11

feel free and then as far as

19:14

personal statements, I know you as far

19:17

as you know with signaling and everything obviously Geographic

19:20

preferences is all very important.

19:23

And when you're getting 1200 or so applications and

19:26

you can only interview a hundred or so people, you know,

19:29

and it's so easy for everyone to to

19:32

apply at several places. I guess nowadays not

19:35

having to travel there for interviews and stuff like that. So

19:38

if you can convey there's a lot of work to change

19:41

your personal statement for each institution or from

19:44

for irdr for Dr. But if you can somehow convey

19:47

why a particular institution or maybe

19:50

pick your you know top 10 or something why you're so

19:53

interested in that program. It does go. I think a

19:56

long way to kind of make the program feel special

19:59

and know that your interest

20:02

is genuine rather than just, you know, a check

20:05

mark on the nrmp application, I guess

20:08

so that's what I would say about that.

20:14

And I agree with that as well.

20:16

We because you're absolutely right

20:19

before signaling. I used to you know,

20:22

try to scour every single personal statement to

20:25

figure out who was really interested in coming to Houston because typically

20:28

Texans kind of stay in

20:31

Texas and you know, we get applicants from the surrounding area.

20:34

So I may not focus on applicants from

20:37

I don't know North Dakota. So I would, you know, try to

20:40

look at personal statements and if they mentioned in there, you know, hey, I live

20:43

in North Dakota but my significant other is in Houston my family

20:46

grow, you know, I grew up in Houston. I'm like, oh, okay. So signaling

20:49

has made that a lot easier and that being said though,

20:52

even when we do see that still even this past year with with

20:55

applicants who signaling us, they would still put you know,

20:58

some of their personal statements would be

21:01

specialized for our program as to why they specifically are interested

21:04

in Houston or being in this area. So it does it for

21:07

me. I agree with you it is it's a special touch and

21:10

and I definitely definitely notice that it's something else.

21:13

And also for personal statements, we really like

21:16

to to just know who you are, you know, tell us

21:19

some interesting facts about you. What brought you to Radiology, who

21:22

are you? You know, it gives us a good sense of who you are. So we

21:25

find those to be very interesting to read. I love reading personal

21:28

statements, especially when they're personal and I

21:31

agree with Dr. Faraji and so far as the you know,

21:34

if there's some sort of red flag what I tend

21:37

to look for with those is that those red

21:40

flags are going to come up and when we look

21:43

at an application, we're going to see them and you will be asked about

21:46

them. So I think it is important to address it. I don't

21:49

think you need to you know Focus heavily on it, but for

21:52

us what we look for is, you know, okay. This happened this

21:55

occurred. How did you grow from it? What did you

21:58

learn from it if you describe something like that. Well, maybe you

22:01

know, maybe somebody got a mist of me or there was an active

22:04

unprofessionalism or whatever it is. And if

22:07

we see that the applicant, you know puts in their application and

22:10

their personal statement that you know

22:13

this

22:13

And but this is you know, this is what I did to overcome it.

22:16

This is what I learned from it. This is how I Grew From

22:19

it how I matured from it and they just take ownership and talk

22:22

about how they grew and matured from it. I like to see that

22:25

a lot more than occasionally. We'll have

22:28

an applicant who might you know try to kind of blame everybody

22:31

else for something that happened and no I

22:34

was on a horrible team and this Resident was bad and that you know, it's any even

22:37

though that could be the absolute truth. I would just you

22:40

know, be responsible say how you learn from

22:43

it and how you grew from it if we see that we like

22:46

to see that that shows, you know maturity and that

22:49

you're taking responsibility and that that is

22:52

something that you have actually grown from

22:56

I completely agree. I was exactly what I was thinking too

22:59

in the question was asked and it

23:02

shows a lot of character to be

23:05

able to address these types of challenging situations directly.

23:08

It's definitely something that anyone

23:11

who's screening the applications is going to

23:14

catch and gonna wonder and if you don't address that

23:17

there's certainly a chance that your application be put aside because of that degree

23:20

of uncertainty. So it is in your

23:23

interest to address in a professional way explain what

23:27

you learned from it what you do differently and move

23:30

on and

23:34

As far as what you else you might want to put in that

23:37

personal statement anything that really

23:40

identifies what motivates you what

23:43

really drives you if

23:46

we can sense that type of passion. That's something that

23:49

is I think really important to identify it

23:52

residency is long. We need people who have the

23:55

energy and commitment to continue so describing

23:58

some type of experience like that that

24:01

really is longitudinal at least for my

24:04

perspective is helpful rather than say one single incident unless

24:07

it was something that was truly life-changing but

24:10

really kind of explaining what it is that keeps you

24:13

going is something that I look for and definitely

24:16

if you are able to explain

24:19

why you're applying to this particular program

24:22

or what you're interested in this particular

24:25

area is helpful, especially given

24:28

how competitive Radiology is these days. It's definitely extra effort if

24:31

you're going to do that though.

24:34

Say make sure that you're actually tailoring it because sometimes we

24:37

see this maybe like at one of

24:40

the last paragraphs and the personal statement and it just looks that somebody like

24:43

somebody's cut and pasted something very generic. They're rather

24:46

than actually something thoughtful about

24:49

our department or our city.

24:52

So if you're gonna tailor it do make

24:55

the effort to actually tailor it with a true reason of why

24:58

you're attracted to that program.

25:01

Awesome, great perspective from all our panelists here.

25:04

Our next question is kind of on the same personal statement

25:07

Vans for your doctor Ferguson and opened everyone for people

25:10

who are interested in Interventional Radiology, but

25:13

are applying both irdr and Dr. Do you

25:16

recommend these individuals have two separate personal statements and

25:19

our IR applicants view differently by Diagnostic

25:22

Radiology PD's

25:27

You know.

25:28

Not not necessarily. They

25:31

don't I don't think applicants necessarily have to

25:34

have two different personal statements. I

25:37

think it's important to be honest

25:40

in your personal statement as to what your goals

25:43

are. So for example with us. We

25:46

have a Dr. Obviously Dr. And an

25:49

IR program and then we also offered the esir pathway

25:52

for the Dr. Applicants. So if an

25:55

applicant is truly interested in Interventional Radiology and

25:58

they're applying to both I think it's important to say that and to

26:01

say that you know, I'm very interested in Interventional Radiology

26:04

and I would be interested in either the the

26:07

Dr. Pathway pursuing esir versus the

26:10

integrated IR Pathways. So I don't think you

26:13

necessarily have to have two separate applications. I

26:16

think that as long as you're just being straightforward

26:19

about what your true goals are that is

26:22

okay, and I don't

26:25

necessarily I don't necessarily

26:28

View IR applicants

26:31

differently from Dr. Applicants except that I

26:34

am aware that they're probably really more focusing

26:37

on and targeting the the IR program

26:40

whether than the Dr program, but we still

26:43

you know, we interview both so that is

26:46

certainly you know, something that we're aware of

26:49

is a Dr. Program director. I'm certainly aware

26:52

of somebody is more or less targeting IR, but we still

26:55

support that because you know, we are aware that not everybody is going to

26:58

match into ir and they will end up in Dr. They

27:01

can do the the ESR our pathway with us.

27:04

So we yeah, so

27:07

I again I think it's it's okay just to

27:10

really really Express. What what your

27:13

true desire is. The other thing is that even

27:16

if you did do two separate

27:19

personal statements, most of

27:22

the time the program is going to figure out

27:25

what you're really interested by reviewing your

27:28

whole.

27:28

Patients. So if you've done a ton of research and

27:31

Interventional Radiology and a ton of electives and Interventional Radiology

27:34

and that, you know, you don't talk about that in your

27:37

personal statement because you're you have a separate, you know personal statement

27:40

for Diagnostic Radiology. We're going to see through that

27:43

so I think it's important just to really State what you're watching

27:46

what your true intentions are.

27:49

Yeah, I would agree with that and I would

27:52

just ensure that you know, the

27:55

applicant conveys and understanding that, you

27:58

know, the basis of Interventional Radiology is

28:01

is Diagnostic Radiology. So

28:04

I would be hesitant to submit a personal statement. That

28:07

is so heavily interventionally, you

28:10

know inclined I guess and

28:13

without any thing in there about understanding

28:16

that in order to be a good Interventional radiologist one

28:19

has to know, you know Diagnostic Imaging and be

28:22

able to understand what's appropriate what interventions

28:25

are appropriate what aren't appropriate and what's the

28:28

differential all those things are very very important. And the last thing that diagnostic

28:31

program wants to do is is match

28:34

an applicant who's just you

28:37

know, basically glazing through their Dr. Rotations and

28:40

waiting to stick people with needles. And so

28:43

I guess I guess I would say you don't

28:46

need to do too personal statements, but try to conve

28:49

And understanding and appreciation of Diagnostic Radiology as

28:52

well as Interventional Radiology and we are looking for

28:55

you know, ESI IR folks too because

28:58

you know more and more with this kind of separation of

29:01

diagnostic Interventional Radiology, you know while it

29:04

is important for Diagnostic residents to

29:08

be able to do needlework and yes, a lot of Radiologists are

29:11

doing basic procedures or more complex

29:14

procedures, you know, they don't they like

29:17

to have IR inclined

29:20

colleagues to kind of help staff some

29:23

of these more Interventional Christian rotations and

29:26

stuff like that. So I guess moral of

29:30

the story synopsis is you don't need to but make sure

29:33

you appreciate and understand Dr. And

29:36

are able to convey that.

29:40

Yes, I would also add and because this is

29:43

kind of an overlapping issue too when you're talking to your letter writers. Also

29:46

just be very honest and open with them as well.

29:49

Because once in a while they get surprised where

29:52

they thought you wanted to do Dr. And you actually want to do IR

29:55

or maybe esir and so on just let

29:58

them know exactly what it is that you want so that they can tailor their

30:01

letter appropriately.

30:11

Well, that's so great. So we're gonna move on to things that about the last

30:14

cycle as we've mentioned many times. It was such

30:17

a a huge change in Radiology, especially it's kind

30:20

of like gradually growing to this point, but there's a

30:23

lot of changes last year and then you know upcoming changes, but we'll

30:26

discuss the ones from last year first. So on our event

30:29

last week Dr. Zane from you Cincinnati mentioned that the

30:32

AP dir data show that signals were very important for

30:35

IR this cycle. Do you

30:38

agree and how important we're signals at your institution? So

30:41

we'll start with you Dr. Cook.

30:43

Absolutely. Thanks Ashley. So that

30:46

was quite a change as far

30:49

as applications. Nationally. It

30:52

has gotten so competitive and Radiology

30:55

that I would say

30:58

just from those folks that I've talked to that. It was something that

31:01

was certainly very much appreciated from

31:04

the program side because it is become so

31:07

hard to know who's truly interested in that has really

31:10

been a important way even

31:13

early on for us to have a better idea because

31:16

we're all interested and attracting residents who

31:19

really want to be at our programs and really want

31:22

to live where we're at and get the best fit. So

31:25

this I think was viewed

31:28

as a very positive change. I would say just qualitatively

31:31

I'm talking to PD's and I

31:34

hope is also something

31:37

that the applicants have felt like allows them

31:40

to really personalize what they're presenting to.

31:43

Programs as well rather than it just being kind of random, you

31:46

know applied as many places as possible sort of

31:49

experience.

31:51

For for our program. Yes. It

31:54

was very competitive Year many many applications. And

31:57

so that was not the only component

32:00

or like the most important thing but it was certainly something that

32:03

we took into consideration and it helped us

32:06

identify those applicants who maybe we

32:09

would have assumed you know for Geographic reasons

32:12

or other reasons would not be so interested in our program. So

32:15

really allowed those people to tell us that they

32:18

were truly interested and helped us to take a

32:21

second look and you know, give them as much consideration as

32:24

possible. So I think it's something that's really in their

32:27

favor because it's

32:30

in this

32:33

kind of very large number of

32:36

applications. It really is and yet another way to stand out and

32:39

help you so I think mutually beneficial the

32:42

bottom line.

32:46

Yeah, I would agree with with that

32:49

especially in Cleveland. It is not generally

32:52

viewed by Outsiders as

32:55

a attractive sexy place

32:58

to live but I you know, if you come by I would I

33:01

would I would do I would show you otherwise but

33:04

so we really look at signals, you know,

33:07

Geographic preferences a little bit kind of confusing right

33:10

because we're in the same Geographic preference as

33:13

Chicago for example, so it doesn't really give me that much

33:16

information. But yeah, I

33:19

would say that the signaling is super important. I think seven out of

33:22

the nine folks we matched in Dr. This year would signaled

33:25

us. That's just how it turned out. But so depending

33:28

on the program that you're applying

33:31

I would say that it's gonna vary and it's important,

33:34

you know, so if it's probably similarly important to Hopkins

33:37

or wherever but it's a

33:40

I would say it's emphasized that programs where you

33:43

know geographically

33:46

Perhaps aren't the most enticing.

33:52

I agree. I I love signaling it helps so

33:55

much.

33:56

Because it really does allow us, you know, instead of

33:59

trying to go through.

34:01

Every hundreds and hundreds of applications to figure out you

34:04

know who to invite because obviously we have a limited number of

34:07

interview slots. We can't invite everybody. So we really want to

34:10

invite applicants who really want to be at the program. So this

34:13

helped so much to know the applicants

34:16

who really are interested to be you know for us to

34:19

be in Houston. I liked it a lot it made everything a lot

34:22

easier. We also you know, like like

34:25

everyone else is saying we really want applicants who

34:28

want to be at our program. The last thing

34:31

I want is an applicant from you know, Vermont

34:34

and their family is in Vermont everybody. They

34:37

love is in Vermont that they match in Houston. They're sad,

34:40

it's just gonna affect every day of their life. It's gonna

34:43

affect their studying it's gonna affect their motivation Etc.

34:46

So we really want applicants who want to be

34:49

or it creates a much more stable residency and you

34:52

know helps it I think it

34:55

makes everything a lot more stable for the resident

34:58

and makes the resident more, you know, psycholog

35:01

We happy with the result as well. So it

35:04

I agree mutually beneficial for both the program and

35:07

for the resident.

35:09

I absolutely agree from like the applicant site too. I really felt like

35:12

it was it's such a useful way and a tool in a

35:15

sense that I could use to show my my early interest

35:18

too. So it's like these are programs that you know that you have

35:21

an interest and I really think it's a beneficial thing and it'll be

35:24

interesting to see how this year with the expanded signals. I think I read

35:27

it six gold and six silver tier,

35:30

so I'll be interesting to see how that changes and evolves

35:33

over time Dr. Broad. You

35:36

kind of already answered this but how important were Geographic preferences for

35:39

your program as a whole. Yeah. I

35:42

mean it helps a little

35:45

bit but it's complicated just because of other places

35:48

that are similar in the same

35:51

Geographic preference. So yeah, I

35:54

would say that signaling was much much stronger indicator

35:57

and anything else on the application that

36:00

suggests Cleveland or any, you

36:03

know, any attachment to this area.

36:08

You know, it's if someone has a geographic preference, but

36:11

it seems like all their schooling was outside

36:14

of Northeast, Ohio and like Chicago and there's really nothing. I

36:17

can glean from their application that would suggest that they were

36:20

genuinely interested in our program. Then I would

36:23

say even if they're Geographic preference was the same

36:26

as ours just giving the the competing

36:29

areas and programs within

36:32

it's just still a very competitive geographic area.

36:35

So it's a little bit less insightful at

36:38

least for our specific geographic area.

36:41

that makes

36:46

sense, it's it was the geographic signaling was

36:49

slightly helpful, but

36:52

it's more generic and you can

36:55

kind of read between the lines and some

36:58

of the applications that you know, if hey, if

37:01

you know, our ours would include Texas and Louisiana

37:04

and I think

37:06

Oklahoma, I can't remember but you know

37:09

if somebody, you know was born and raised in Louisiana,

37:12

they've lived there their whole life Etc

37:15

and they give us a geographic preference, you

37:18

know, you kind of know that they're probably

37:21

targeting Louisiana and you know, we're you

37:24

know, they just want to see you know, if they can also interview and

37:27

Texas as well. So I agree it's a

37:30

little more generic and not quite as helpful for me

37:33

either.

37:35

And Dr. Hook any other way?

37:37

Oh, yeah. No, I completely agree. I think it depends on a little

37:40

bit on the area and which other programs how many other

37:43

programs are included in that area that sort of thing. But yeah

37:46

that was much lower down on things

37:49

that were helpful much more helpful is the signals and also what

37:52

people were saying in the personal statements.

37:54

Makes sense. Yeah, something that came up a lot this year

37:57

and questions. I've already received a lot from the people that

38:00

would be applying. This cycle is since Radiology

38:03

is growing in our competitive. Is

38:06

this do you recommend that applicants dual apply? Like

38:09

what will you recommend to the people you're advising? Because

38:12

I know that you know, there's some there's some stigma like with program directors

38:15

specifically, but for people at your and a

38:18

mentor for would you recommend that they do apply or who do

38:21

you recommend to apply or considers to applying so

38:24

we'll start with you Dr. Ferguson?

38:26

yes in general I

38:29

would I mean we meet with all of our students and

38:32

we definitely give them.

38:35

Individual advice in general we really want

38:38

to know that somebody is going into Radiology because

38:41

that's really what they want to go into and not just

38:44

kind of like hey, you know, I'll take whatever we really

38:47

want to see that they're interested in radiology. And that's

38:50

really what they're passion is and that's what's going to make them happy. But we

38:53

also have to look at their their data,

38:56

you know, what are their grades in

38:59

their scores? What is their experience are they competitive for

39:02

radiology and if they're not competitive

39:05

for radiology, we try you know,

39:08

we are very honest with them about that. There are some applicants

39:11

who I think again. This

39:14

is very applicant dependent if it's if the applicant is

39:17

very strong competitive and they want to do Radiology. I

39:20

don't see any reason to do all of my

39:23

obviously so it's really going to hinge on you know, the type

39:26

of applicant that it is if it's an applicant who I

39:29

really don't think can match into Radiology. I

39:32

would just my advice would be not to do that.

39:35

A focus on something else fine what they're passion is but if

39:38

it is an applicant that maybe it's borderline and maybe

39:41

in a typical year three four five years

39:44

ago. They would have matched and you're kind of now a

39:47

little bit unsure about it and there's something and they

39:50

really like Radiology but there is something else that they really would

39:53

consider doing then I would much rather

39:56

see them, you know match into something that they like that

39:59

being said if there's an applicant who is you know,

40:02

borderline competitive you think they

40:05

possibly could match and there's just nothing else they

40:08

can imagine themselves doing then, you know, okay go for

40:11

it. Try it, you know maybe and if they

40:14

don't match maybe spend a year doing something else get there get their

40:17

application improved but in general I think that's gonna be

40:20

very applicant dependent and I would really only say again

40:23

I wouldn't want somebody to go in something that they didn't like, but I

40:26

would want to really try to tell somebody if

40:29

they're not competitive to look at

40:32

something else and certainly do will apply.

40:35

There's a chance to get into Radiology.

40:38

That makes sense Dr. Cook. The only thing that

40:41

I I completely agree. The basic premise

40:44

here is a really depends on your personal situation. It

40:47

has to be tailored. And and if

40:50

you're considering doing this do seek opinions from multiple

40:53

mentors as far as the best way

40:56

to go about this and how competitive to help you could determine how

40:59

competitive you would be for radiology as well because that

41:02

can be sometimes hard to self-assess.

41:05

And Dr. Farage any additional thoughts.

41:08

No, just agree with my colleagues

41:11

here.

41:13

I think it's such a complicated topic and I do think that the main

41:16

thing here is to find a mentor or somebody to be honest, whether that's

41:19

from your school or from your institution or somebody's recently matched or

41:22

a program directly know at a different institution. Any

41:25

of these things would be helpful. So mentors mean the world have many

41:29

on this call. But um, yeah mentors cannot be

41:32

underestimated. So now we're going to talk about 2024 and some

41:35

new changes. I'll pass it over to a room.

41:38

Yeah. Great. Thank you Ashley. I think we really looked back

41:41

answers from general questions. And now we're gonna be looking

41:44

ahead to this upcoming application cycle, which

41:47

I judging by the Q&A box. We have a lot of future future radar

41:50

as applicants down here and let's try

41:53

to answer some questions that we know are out

41:56

there. So the first question is so what's

41:59

been put out there is that Eris is changing the 10 maximum

42:02

experiences, which will include work volunteering

42:05

leadership and research on how do

42:08

you think applicants should best use this

42:11

section and would you recommend

42:13

Applicants to group similar experiences IE volunteering

42:16

experiences and Dr. Cook you win this

42:19

question for so go ahead.

42:22

excellent

42:25

I shouldn't personally so for me, it actually does help if things

42:28

are grouped or put in some type of fashion where

42:31

it forms more of a narrative rather than I did

42:34

these all these really cool things, but they're all just

42:37

kind of disparate and seem a little bit unrelated. So anything that can really

42:40

kind of for me lump it together. It does make it

42:43

easier.

42:44

To help me envision your history

42:47

what you're about that sort

42:50

of thing. So yes organization grouping lumping

42:53

whatever works to like tie things

42:56

together to create the narrative is very helpful. And I

43:00

would focus again my

43:03

perspective on those experiences that also were

43:06

longitudinal enough that they really show a

43:09

commitment to something whatever it is, you're passionate about as opposed

43:12

to like a single day thing in general.

43:18

Yeah.

43:19

I'm completely agree. I don't really have anything else to add. I like that

43:22

the organization having everything grouped together talking about

43:25

experiences that are really impacted you that are really meaningful true

43:28

experiences. Exactly. Not just not

43:31

just something that happened one day but something that really really made

43:34

an impact on your life and it was truly meaningful to to

43:37

who you are and who you become and how you got into Radiology.

43:44

I agree great. All right, so grouping

43:47

organization sounds like that is definitely highly

43:50

recommended and with that limit I think

43:53

applicants are going to be forced to so hopefully it'll make

43:56

your jobs easier and also the applicants jobs easier a little bit with

43:59

less ability to just put a lot of things in there. So our

44:03

next question is for you Dr. Faraji, the class of 2024 is

44:06

gonna be the first class where the majority of applicants do

44:09

not have a step one score. How will your

44:12

program handle this and do you encourage applicants taking

44:15

step two before the Eris deadline?

44:18

Great question. So I don't want

44:21

to speak on behalf of our program director, but my general

44:24

thought process on not having

44:28

the step one score. I mean step two will

44:31

be a data point that will probably have a

44:34

greater emphasis than it has historically so I

44:37

will throw that out there and again just echoing that

44:40

it is a holistic review, you know process. So I

44:43

want to still make sure that you know Radiology is a

44:46

very unique specialty and something on the application should

44:49

convey to me that you the person has vetted,

44:52

you know, the the fields sufficiently to know that that

44:55

they could see themselves doing this for the rest of their lives. So and

44:58

you know research extra curriculars all that is

45:01

important, but I'm hypothesizing that

45:04

the step one last of

45:07

a score and step one will probably

45:10

in some ways just kind of displace that emphasis on step

45:13

two and I think some other people have been asking

45:16

the box. So what do you recommend taking?

45:18

You before the application just

45:21

since it seems like a similar topic. I'll touch on it

45:24

my personal recommendation. Is that if

45:28

One of someone is historically generally a good test taker

45:31

a confident and you know comfortable knowing that

45:34

they can go into you have dedicated study time. And you feel

45:37

like it's a good opportunity for you to show what

45:40

you know, I would generally recommend taking it and hopefully

45:43

doing well on it and I think that's a just

45:46

strengthens your application. But if

45:49

you have any hesitation and other ways then

45:52

maybe it's safe or not to take it but in general I would

45:55

say, you know, I would recommend that folks take

45:58

their step too before the application open in

46:01

order to be able to convey, you know that they

46:04

are academically very strong and would

46:07

exceed Excel and Radiology.

46:13

I agree. I think I think across the board. There's

46:16

just going to be a general feeling again not

46:19

to speak for every program but I think in general

46:22

this sense is going to be that.

46:25

Programs will most likely want to see a step

46:28

to to see that a student can take

46:31

a standardized test and I

46:34

think that a lot of I think that would be important to try

46:37

to go ahead and get it before you get your

46:40

step to and before you apply as well.

46:45

Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, there

46:49

is that individual component where that there are certainly are. Some

46:52

folks out there who Excel and very meaningful

46:55

ways and are just

46:58

not good standardized test takers and for those particular

47:01

individuals, it may be other benefit to to differ

47:04

on that. But yeah for

47:07

the majority of applicants just because it's going to be one of

47:10

these ways that you can showcase that you have the ability and

47:13

skill set and knowledge. They'll probably want to take it.

47:19

Great. Thanks for your guys perspectives on that. I think um,

47:22

that's a real pressing issue. It's a very different given all the data

47:25

that's out there and you know how students look at the information by step one

47:28

scores by programs on it's gonna be a really

47:31

interesting year ahead. I'm sure for everyone involved in

47:34

the process. So we're gonna ask one last

47:37

question regarding signals here and you win

47:40

this question Dr. Ferguson. So, you know,

47:43

Sal and Ashley have already touched down the fact there's gonna use tiered signals

47:46

six Silver Six gold, you know, what would

47:49

be your advice to mentees managing the signals this

47:52

year. And would you advise them to focus on target programs or

47:55

is there another strategy you would recommend?

47:59

yes, I think you know it's

48:03

Signal the programs that you really are interested in

48:06

attending because it is going to come to that program's attention.

48:09

That's something I think that you've seen from today that

48:12

all the programs are actually looking at whose signaled us. So that

48:15

really does come to our attention. That being

48:18

said I would also make sure I

48:21

look at the applicant individually and when I would be advising a

48:24

medical student, I you know, if a medical student is

48:27

a less competitive medical student. Obviously, I

48:30

would tell them don't signal the most competitive programs out

48:34

there signal programs within your reach. So I

48:37

do think that's also another component of it that we want to take into

48:40

account obviously signal programs that you're interested in that you

48:43

want to come to their attention that you're interested in it, but

48:46

also program sort of within your wheelhouse within

48:49

your within your reach what would be you know,

48:52

based on the type of applicant you

48:55

are and the type of programs that you should or should not be singly but

48:58

I think it's important to Signal really good programs you're interested in because

49:01

it does come to our attention.

49:06

Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, thanks.

49:09

So yeah, it's something that does

49:12

take a certain amount of self knowledge and then consultation

49:15

with your mentors because you will want to figure out

49:18

which programs that you want to really Target

49:21

are those reach programs for you. Are

49:24

they something where you be a slam dunk, or would you be

49:27

kind of more middle of the road because that

49:30

will help you decide how many

49:33

of those particular types that you're going to

49:36

be putting in, you know, you might have a couple of the your dream

49:40

your reach programs in there that you definitely want

49:43

to let them know that you're interested because these things do

49:46

work out so that that's important but you don't

49:49

want to have all of them in that category because

49:52

they're just with the way things are so competitive that might

49:55

put you at some degree of risk.

49:59

Great. Thanks for your perspectives on signals. And actually we're gonna

50:02

try to get one more questioning because it's been asked by a lot of people in

50:05

the Q&A and in comments and this is open to

50:08

everyone how important is research in the

50:11

application review process. I know particularly some

50:14

students thinking of doing if they were unmatched that you're doing a research

50:17

here just your general thoughts on research for radiology in the

50:20

application review process would be really insightful from

50:23

all of you guys.

50:25

I would say that it is

50:28

important and the degree of importance will

50:31

vary from institution to institution. So if

50:34

a place that you're applying to is relatively, you know

50:38

research and climbed then it would be important for their

50:41

ideal applicant probably has a good amount

50:44

of research. The other thing is research experience can account

50:47

for deficiencies on

50:50

your application and other areas. So maybe your scores are

50:53

kind of borderline. But if you're you've shown a

50:56

dedicated career and Radiology research, then

50:59

I think that can help supplement your application

51:02

and and that way so I would

51:05

say very instrumental institution get a

51:08

good idea get a good understanding of where you want to go and maybe look

51:11

at their websites and the residents that they have and

51:14

see how much research experience, you know, they have

51:17

before going there and then in addition

51:20

it's definitely important for

51:25

You can I guess you can cover up areas of

51:28

deficiency by by a strong

51:31

research background or dedication to having

51:34

done a lot of research at in addition to

51:37

other factors.

51:41

So I completely agree with that. I think it's going to vary based

51:44

on the institution. I think you know

51:47

for us we do like to see some research because it

51:50

shows that there is a, you know an enduring interest

51:53

in Radiology that you really are willing

51:56

to, you know, spend your time, you know

51:59

doing research and some component of radiology and

52:02

that you're really, you know serious about it.

52:05

But you know, we it also, you

52:08

know could give some candidates maybe an edge

52:11

a leg up but in general for our

52:14

institution, it is important. We like to

52:17

see some research, but I'm sure there are

52:20

other

52:21

Residencies out there that would require more than we require. So

52:24

I think it's it's very institution dependent.

52:29

It definitely is I would also note that when people

52:32

say research sometimes they mean different things. There's of course

52:35

basic science research. There's clinical research all which

52:38

is great. Sometimes people do research and other fields

52:41

surgical Fields medicine and you

52:44

know, maybe they're interest change over time and that's

52:47

still and this

52:50

is probably program dependent but that's still in our eyes counted as something that

52:54

you did that was meaningful. So we don't just automatically

52:57

discount research that was not done in Radiology because

53:00

we do know that there's a certain period of time or until sort

53:03

of change during medical school. But also we look

53:06

favorable fee upon other things like educational exhibits

53:10

or posters or if you're giving presentations

53:13

that are significant things that

53:16

maybe aren't deemed as

53:19

like true research but still

53:22

really contribute to the body of Academia.

53:31

Well, I think that's most of our question. There are

53:34

a large number of questions that we answered and also

53:37

were unanswered. I wanted to let everybody that's

53:40

on the call know that we will be holding more webinars throughout

53:44

before application season that will address a

53:47

lot of these more specific scenarios such as

53:50

International Medical graduates and deal applicants

53:53

or coming from a small school. So look out

53:56

for that on the rad room Twitter will also

53:59

be sending that out. So just know that that is coming.

54:02

I wanted to say a huge. Thank you to Dr. Cook

54:05

Dr. Ferguson Dr. Garaji for not only joining

54:08

us today about being such such strong supporters of

54:11

us and providing so much guidance for all students

54:14

or radiology and radiology and we

54:17

know that you're taking time out of your personal day and we appreciate that so

54:20

much. We also wanted to give a huge. Thank you to MRI online.

54:23

We're hosting us again allowing us to share this valuable

54:26

information and insight with students across the

54:29

country. I just wanted to remark my last

54:31

Thing today is I know that this is a really tough thing.

54:34

I know that radiology is becoming more competitive, but you

54:37

know, if this is something that you're drawn to if you feel like you're calling

54:40

is a radiology reach out and find mentors reach

54:43

out and find people responsors and just get more

54:46

involved. There's so many ways to get involved. If you want to reach out to us either on

54:49

Twitter or the Radiology room at gmail.com.

54:52

We're happy to connect you with people that can

54:55

help you at least discuss your goals, and we

54:58

have a ton of advice on our website. So thank you for everybody for

55:01

attending. Thank you, especially to our panelists and MRI online and

55:04

we hope that everybody has a great day.

55:07

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Of course.

55:10

Take care.

55:11

All right. Thanks everyone and thanks everyone for participating

55:14

in this new conference and all the questions and for

55:17

panelists amazing job. Thank

55:20

you so much for being here. You can access the

55:23

recording of today's new conference by creating a free MRI

55:26

online account.

55:28

And be sure to join us next Thursday, March 30th at

55:31

12 pm Eastern. We are having Dr. David

55:34

youson on for a spine Imaging Board review. You can

55:37

register for that one at MRI online.com.

55:40

Follow us on social media for updates on future new conferences. Thanks

55:43

everyone and have a great day.